This has been a very interesting thread so far. I think that we all mean
well and want to be as inclusive as possible. That's a really positive and
commendable goal! I also think that we sometimes work so hard to not alienate
groups that we end up alienating everyone or making things confusing to all.
I prefer to use gender-specific terms for most dances when I am calling for
adults. This has always worked well for me, even when there is a marked
gender imbalance. I have *never* had anyone come up to me to complain about
this. I have had a couple of female caller friends get on their soap boxes to
complain about "traditional" square dance calls. I usually shoot for using
less gender-specific dances when I am working with children, depending upon
the group.
I have never attended, nor been asked to call a gender-free dance in my 30
years of calling, but I would be open to using whatever terminology/markers
a group is used to using. Most of my calling has been for the "usual" contra
dance crowd, ONS dances, Civil War balls, and open square dances.
Terminology has just not been an issue for any of these groups. Whatever works for a
given dance community is hunky-dory with me. Just don't push your views on
those who are happy with the way things are.
John B. Freeman, SFTPOCTJ
I was hired to call a dance and noticed, when I arrived, that there
were only two other men in the room besides myself. When I commented
on this I was informed that the group who hired me was a local
lesbian club. They specifically asked that I not make any
accommodations, even though many of them were new to contras. I
believe that they made a point of NOT informing me of their makeup
specifically so that I would not try to dance around the gender specific terms.
It worked out very well. All had a great time, and this in spite of
the fact that there were also two deaf dancers in the room as well.
Attitude is a key factor. I understand a lot of dances were called
here in California at mining towns during the gold rush. The men
danced with each other and half of them played the part of ladies. I
don't think they ever asked for "gender neutral" terms. A few shots
of whisky probably helped as well.
- Greg
*******
At 10:02 AM 12/2/2010, Susie wrote:
> I have been asked to call for a new dance group forming in a small town
> near our regular dance. Experienced dancers were asked to come help
> these absolute newbies, and some local musicians have volunteered their
> services. It became obvious that about half the dancers were lesbians
> who asked me to use non gender specific terms when calling. I tried
> 'lead' and 'follow' because the syllable numbers worked, but I'm not
> happy with that. I also had some regular dancers comment on not wanting
> to deal with 'some' peoples' political agendas as related to contra
> calling. I have never dealt with gender free calling and would
> appreciate ANY help from those of you who may have been doing it for
> years. What terms seem to work best? Any other hints to make things go
> more smoothly? These people are very enthusiastic and I want to see
> the dance succeed.
>_______________________________________________
>Callers mailing list
>Callers(a)sharedweight.net
>http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
I have been asked to call for a new dance group forming in a small town
near our regular dance. Experienced dancers were asked to come help
these absolute newbies, and some local musicians have volunteered their
services. It became obvious that about half the dancers were lesbians
who asked me to use non gender specific terms when calling. I tried
'lead' and 'follow' because the syllable numbers worked, but I'm not
happy with that. I also had some regular dancers comment on not wanting
to deal with 'some' peoples' political agendas as related to contra
calling. I have never dealt with gender free calling and would
appreciate ANY help from those of you who may have been doing it for
years. What terms seem to work best? Any other hints to make things go
more smoothly? These people are very enthusiastic and I want to see
the dance succeed.
On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 23:13:55 -0500,
Amy Cann <acann(a)putneyschool.org> wrote:
> Here's a thought I've been toying with for a while:
>
> A term we use in knitting to identify which way yarn twists is "N-wise
> or Z-wise"
>
> (think of a piece of yarn, look at the slanty lines the plies make, look
> at the center slashes of an N, then a Z. See it?)
>
> How many moves could be identified this way?
>
> "Facing up and down, the first corners on the N diagonal, allemande
> once and a half."
> "Facing across, Z diagonals start a hey by the left"
> "Facing across, N's diagonal chain"
You could do that, but it may be less confusing to just identify whether it's the person on the right or left in the couple:
"Facing up and down, people on the RIGHT allemande once and a half"
"Facing across, people on the LEFT start a hey, passing left shoulders"
"Facing across, person on the RIGHT chain across"
That being said, the one time I called a gender-free dance I just used "bares" and "bands", since that what the dance organizers directed me to do -- I just followed what was their custom, and it worked out fine
Mark Widmer / central NJ
Hooting out a cheer for Amy Cann's entire post re music for dancing. Hallelujah sister. So glad you are out there to offer your 20cents and more. Am sending all of it on to our All-Comers Band leaders as food for thought.
> Newer bands often do things that are "cool" but deadly. One is to pick
> inscrutable tunes -- so inscrutable that noone is quite sure where the A
> part is.
>
> I would probably encourage them to listen to some of the seminal Canterbury
> orchestra/Yankee Ingenuity type albums and start with the chestnuts --
> there's a reason those tunes became "canon." Listen to how the tunes are
> matched -- what are the keys, the personalities? Why do those medleys work?
> There are newer dance-length CD's by longtime bands that are also excellent.
>
> If they already have their own favorite repertoire, have them at least
> screen out the old time tunes where the A and B parts are different by only
> one note -- and the Celtic tunes where they're different by all 64. A good
> dance tune should have a recognizable shape, be kindof singable -- have a
> good mix of note values, neither all sparse quarters or relentless machine
> gun sixteenths.
>
Another cheer for Alan Winston's closing commentary:
> I also think people who insist on
> doing that when it freaks out their neighbors are valuing their own fun more
> highly than the comfort of other people there and are behaving in an
> anti-communitarian way - which is their perfect right, but it's not an
> unalloyed good.
>
> And some of the people who are freaked out are freaked out because if somebody
> they're not expecting comes at them they think somebody (maybe them) are in the
> wrong place and their anxiety level goes up. Not homophobia - just hanging
> onto the dance by their fingernails. That's a good thing to be aware of when
> you're swapping sides in gendered contra land.
>
And a final cheer for Seth and Chris whose great idea of this list has netted so many valuable exchanges since inception.
Chrissy Fowler
Belfast, ME
A Rainbow contra dance was recently started here in Seattle. After much
research and discussion, the organizer decided she wanted callers to use
"lead" and "follow." The callers are emphasizing personal choice in
whichever role the dancer wants to play and that they're allowed to switch
throughout the evening and negotiate with each partner who's going to play
each role.
I have a personal dislike for ties, bands, bandannas, etc., because it
hampers movement on the dance floor and doesn't allow for changing roles
easily as you dance. If a person is coming toward you with an outstretched
hand for an allemande, why not assume they know what they're doing instead
of trying to figure out whether they're dancing the "right" role?
I've heard the argument that contra leading/following isn't the same as in
ballroom, but "lead" and "follow" seem less offensive to me than using
gender-specific terms in a gender-free dance. Yes, it's more of a
negotiation than leading in ballroom or swing or blues, but if you can get
past the idea that the lead is actually dictating every move for the follow,
then I think these terms are about as good as any.
Someone suggested using "ones" and "twos," but I'm not seeing how you would
then distinguish between active and inactive couples.
The bathrooms at the Saturn Cafe in Santa Cruz are gender-neutral and use
the terms "robots" and "aliens." How about it? :)
-Marianne
Hi,
We have a group of musicians getting together a band for a new
contra series (hurray!). They are mostly experienced musicians (old
time, celtic) but not for dancing, and most (unfortunately) aren't
dancers. Does anyone have any tune sets of common tunes that they
particularly like? Having had the experience of calling to a rather
amorphous (phrase wise) tune set put together by wonderful musicians
but non dancers, I'd like to recommend for our group some good, solid
core tune sets for a starting repertoire.
Thanks!
Sue Robishaw, Upper Peninsula of Michigan
PS - Anyone know of a set dance musician's list similar to this one?
On hands four and crossing over:
Ron,
I've had the same experience - I'm not sure if I forgot to tell
people in the beginner session (when I usually do it, like Chris)
that when they became ones or twos at the top or bottom, that they
should wait out and cross over, or whether I had some newcomers that
missed the instruction, but I remember a couple popping out at the
top and then racing to the bottom of the set to start over. Quite fun
to watch. So I definitely try to make sure if I can that newcomers
aren't clueless.
And Richard, I'm certainly not going to stop saying "Hands four from
the top", especially since in a lot of places I've called, even if
the dancers start to line up crossed over, it just doesn't seem to
propagate all the way down the line, and the people at the bottom
have no idea what group they are in. The fact that some partners are
running around getting a drink or whatever and leaving gaps in the
line makes it particularly difficult for people to figure out what
group they're in if hands four (or three (or two!) plus ghost(s))
isn't done. Sometimes if people are being particularly slow I just
say "do-si-do your neighbor (whatever the dance) and everyone
suddenly rushes about trying to figure out who their neighbor should
be - then I say - OK, that was just to identify your neighbor, now
this is the dance.
Oh, and Chris, I suspect that the dancers line up proper here in San
Diego because over the years the callers here have called proper
dances frequently enough that our dancers wait to find out what we
are up to. I do try to make sure mine are fun ones with double
progressions or both ones and twos swinging their partners, for
example. Hey, and you've called a number of 2's crossed over recently
- which is easier to instruct if they haven't crossed over yet.
Martha
On Dec 1, 2010, at 5:51 PM, callers-request(a)sharedweight.net wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Telling couples to switch at the end of a contra set (Mark
> Widmer)
> 2. Re: Telling couples to switch at the end of a contra set
> (Ron Nelson)
> 3. Re: Telling couples to switch at the end of a contra set
(Richard Fischer)
>
> 7. Re: Telling couples to switch at the end of a contra set
> (Chris Page)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 16:37:08 -0800 (PST)
> From: Mark Widmer <widmermt(a)yahoo.com>
> To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
> Subject: [Callers] Telling couples to switch at the end of a contra
> set
> Message-ID: <677169.39393.qm(a)web62103.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hey, I was wondering what other callers thought about the
> following: often, during the walkthrough of the 1st contra dance of
> the evening, the caller explains that dancers should trade places
> with their partner whenever they reach the end of the set
>
> However, I never do this, and have never had a problem as a result
> -- the experienced dancers in the set, apparently, are able to get
> the new dancers to do this, and nobody has ever complained to me
> that I didn't instruct dancers to switch
>
> I have wondered what others thought about this -- my own thinking
> is why take time to explain something when it isn't necessary?
>
> Regards,
>
> Mark Widmer / central NJ
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 00:43:18 +0000
> From: Ron Nelson <callerman(a)hotmail.com>
> To: <widmermt(a)yahoo.com>, <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Telling couples to switch at the end of a
> contra set
> Message-ID: <BAY158-w2261ACA1E925FA2F591D62B8270(a)phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> One unintended consequence of not covering the end effect on the
> walk through that happened when I was calling was to have the top
> couple dash to the bottom of the set to get back into the action.
>
> Ron Nelson
> Chula Vista, CA
>
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 19:55:32 -0500
> From: Richard Fischer <richardallenfischer(a)verizon.net>
> To: widmermt(a)yahoo.com, Caller's discussion list
> <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Telling couples to switch at the end of a
> contra set
> Message-ID: <E60F6985-7603-4072-B807-E01E498E5055(a)verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> And a related question: when will callers stop saying "Hands four
> from the top, number ones cross over"--in acknowledgement that
> improper formation is the default for modern contras? I'm curious
> how many callers have already stopped saying that. Or to put the
> question another way, in how many dance communities do dancers line
> up inproper and not expect a reminder to "cross over" and be in
> improper formation?
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 20:41:04 -0500
> From: Donald Primrose <limerickfarm(a)gmail.com>
> To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Telling couples to switch at the end of a
> contra set
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTin7x_1-bKjjSMMH8X+2yezV3iXFgsx9eXKpoEeC(a)mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> The prompt "hands four from the top" should always be said, I would
> never assume, nor do the dances I call on a regular basis make that
> assumption. The instruction.. Cross over when at the foot of the set..
> I leave out of my walkthroughs.. and they have always figured it out.
>
> On occasion when calling in a new venue and I see dancers
> automatically lining up improper.. I call hand six, it keeps them
> focused. I call many proper dances (chestnuts) in any given night
> keeping the dancers connected to the music the dance and our shared
> history.
>
> Don Primrose / Nelson NH
>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 17:51:28 -0800
> From: Chris Page <chriscpage(a)gmail.com>
> To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Telling couples to switch at the end of a
> contra set
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTi=ovxezNWSiOoF1tsCqkkPxVxwjninX5ziDWrTz(a)mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>
>
> I dunno. I'm happy to encourage them to automatically take
> hands four -- it saves me the hardest part of my job if they
> can organize without my prompting. When I do call triple
> minors I just remember to start announcing hands six
> early in the line-up phase.
>
> Interestingly enough in San Diego, the dancer default
> is to line up proper, even though it's unusual for a
> proper dance to be called.
>
> As for the original question, adding "ones cross over"
> while they take hands four isn't time you could be saying
> anything else, as people are still getting organized and
> aren't in place for the first move of the dance.
>
> I tend to talk about crossing over at the ends during the
> beginner's session, rather than the first dance. Though if
> they've heard it, they have some context as experienced
> dancers are waving to them to trade sides.
>
> -Chris Page
> San Diego
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of Callers Digest, Vol 76, Issue 1
> **************************************
Hey, I was wondering what other callers thought about the following: often, during the walkthrough of the 1st contra dance of the evening, the caller explains that dancers should trade places with their partner whenever they reach the end of the set
However, I never do this, and have never had a problem as a result -- the experienced dancers in the set, apparently, are able to get the new dancers to do this, and nobody has ever complained to me that I didn't instruct dancers to switch
I have wondered what others thought about this -- my own thinking is why take time to explain something when it isn't necessary?
Regards,
Mark Widmer / central NJ
