Yeah, I hear you...but the cow joke doesn't work if you call it a balance and square through. :-) 

On Sat, Aug 9, 2025, 7:28 PM Joe Harrington via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
In a 6 count square through 2 without a balance, I don't think the pull-bys are happening on beats 2-3/5-6, nor on 1-2/4-5, with one beat to set up or turn.  They are either happening on 1-2-3-4 or 3-4-5-6, at least when danced by experienced dancers who care about the music and can do the move in time.  Could it be that someone saw the chaos of different people doing it on different beats and said, let's set this up with a balance and then do the move together, in the same four beats, since it's more interesting with the balance anyway?

Does that square (sorry) with history? 

When did this move come into contra?  Could that someone have been Tony Parkes, or is the move with the balance older than Friday Night Fever?

As for what to call it, I'd be slow to make changes. I see some technical value in searching databases for the balance/square-through combination separately from non-balance square-throughs, but in cueing, I find "balance and square through two" to be quicker and clearer than either "interrupted" or "balanced".

Thanks to Mac Mckeever for a relevant offline message.

--jh--



On Sat, Aug 9, 2025 at 7:54 PM Jerome Grisanti <jerome.grisanti@gmail.com> wrote:
I use the move (balance, square thru two, repeat), but don't use the term balanced or interrupted (though I understand both in written instructions). To dancers, I just orient with whom they will be doing it and say balance, pull by (this person), pull by (that person). I call it a "square thru." I understand that MWSD does not typically use balances in square thrus, so if MWSD dancers are present I might explain the addition as a habit among contra dancers. With contra dancers I might similarly explain when I use a no-balance version of square thru.


—Jerome Grisanti 


Jerome Grisanti
660-528-0858
http://www.jeromegrisanti.com

"Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

On Sat, Aug 9, 2025, 6:00 PM Chris Page via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
It's because with the balance and square through, a little time is
stolen from the balances.
It also feels like a rushed figure, but there's recovery points.

My best (rough) estimate for the timing of a square through is 2 beats
per pull by
and 1 beat per 90 degree turn.

Tony Parkes original version of Friday Night Fever, with only one balance, takes
the same timing approach. I'm not sure when two balances got added to
square throughs. Maybe "Al's Advice"?

Cheers,
-Chris Page
Los Angeles, CA

On Sat, Aug 9, 2025 at 1:42 PM Joe Harrington via Contra Callers
<contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Oddly, in several dances with uninterrupted square through twos and threes in Caller's Box, the figure is given an extra two beats.  What's with that?  See:
>
> The Amazing Sarah Wilcox by Tom Hinds
> https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=6397
>
> 0.0238095238 or 1/42 by Gary Shapiro
> https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=12155
>
> Square Route by Bob Isaacs and Chris Page
> https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=13707
>
> --jh--
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 9, 2025 at 3:52 PM Bob Hofkin via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> I pulled Contra*Butions 3 off my shelf, and found the term "balanced
>> square thru" (along with a definition). I'm sure Chris and Michael have
>> good reason for standardizing on "interrupted" and I'm not about to
>> challenge them.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> On 08/09/2025 12:13, Bob Morgan via Contra Callers wrote:
>> > Caller's Box only references interrupted square through
>> >
>> > Carol Ormand's Baling Hay does contain an interrupted square thru 2
>> >
>> > https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=1522
>> > <https://www.ibiblio.org/contradance/thecallersbox/dance.php?id=1522>
>> >
>> > I don't think I've come across balanced square through all that much
>> > here.  I would define either usage in teaching though.
>> >
>> > Bob
>> >
>> > On Sat, Aug 9, 2025 at 7:38 PM John Sweeney via Contra Callers
>> > <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> > <mailto:contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
>> >
>> >     The original “Rights & Lefts” was commonly four steps for each of
>> >     four “changes”.____
>> >
>> >     __ __
>> >
>> >     Square Dancers often do them at twice that speed, just two steps for
>> >     each change.____
>> >
>> >     __ __
>> >
>> >     My guess is that Contra Dancers found four steps too slow and wanted
>> >     to add more energy, so they introduced the Balance Forward & Back
>> >     then two quick changes.____
>> >
>> >     __ __
>> >
>> >     Note: Square Dancers define Square Thru as finishing in the
>> >     direction you were facing for the last change, with your back to the
>> >     person you just passed; Contra Dancers liked the term, but ignored
>> >     that bit of the definition!  Aren’t living traditions wonderful?____
>> >
>> >     __ __
>> >
>> >     Of course, since a Balanced “Square Thru” is now a well-defined
>> >     contra term, an Interrupted one should surely be:____
>> >
>> >     Pull by Right, give Left Hand & Balance F/B, Pull by Left____
>> >
>> >     :-)____
>> >
>> >     __ __
>> >
>> >                  Happy dancing,____
>> >
>> >                         John____
>> >
>> >     ____
>> >
>> >     John Sweeney, Dancer, England john@modernjive.com
>> >     <mailto:john@modernjive.com> 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574____
>> >
>> >     http://www.contrafusion.co.uk <http://www.contrafusion.co.uk> for
>> >     Dancing in Kent____
>> >
>> >     _______________________________________________
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