Contra Callers

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Re: Is there an on-line simulator to visualize/observe contra dance moves/interactions?

by jim saxe

A couple small corrections to my previos message about diagramming: I wrote > ... the starting position of a duple minor contra would look like this: > > 1 B 3 D 5 F ... > A 2 C 4 E 6 .. That should read "... a duple improper contra ..." I also wrote: > For a single-progression dance with no out-of-minor set action, it suffices to follow couples 1A and 2B. ... Actually there are many single-progression dances where dancers move on from one set of neighbors to the next partway through the sequence rather that at the transition from B2 to A1. (By "B2" and "A1" I refer here to musical phrases, not to couples in my diagram notation!) In those, dancers 1 and A dance part of the sequence with neighbors B and 2 and the rest with neighbors D and 4. --Jim

5 years, 4 months

Re: Is there an on-line simulator to visualize/observe contra dance moves/interactions?

by jim saxe

Since this discussion has expanded to include methods of working out dance choreography without using computers (or live dancers), here's a description of my method. First off, I much prefer using diagrams to using props. With diagrams if you think you made a mistake somewhere--for example if a supposedly good sequence doesn't end with dancers in the correct progressed position--then you can easily go back and check your work. With props, as soon as you move them, you lose the history of where they were. Second, both for ease of writing and ease of reading, I like to keep my notation pretty terse, but not so terse as to be cryptic. That is, my diagrams shouldn't be cryptic *to me* if I look at them the next week or the next year, even if they might be cryptic to someone who doesn't know my conventions. To diagram a dance sequence, I make a series of diagrams showing dancers' configuration at various points in the sequence, starting with the configuration at the start of the dance. In between each two successive diagrams, I write the figure(s) that the dancers would do to move between the configurations they show. I might also draw a large arrows from each diagram to the next. For contras, I make the length of the line go horizontally across the page. I happen to have picked the convention of putting the top of the set at the left (similar to what Larry Jennings does in _Give-and-Take_ and opposite to what Cary Ravitz does in the notes I cited in an earlier message). For squares I use "caller's view" orientation, with couple 1 nearest the bottom of the page. To represent dancers, I use numerals "1", "2", "3", ... for the gents/larks and corresponding letters "A", "B", "C", ... for the ladies/robins, so that A and 1 are partners, B and 2 are partners, etc. I happen to have the positions of the letters in the alphabet well memorized, so I can immediately recognize, for example, that 7's partner is G and vice versa without having to count. Single digits and letters are more compact, quicker to write, and (at least for me) quicker to read than something like "Lark 1" with a box around it. I typically use odd numbers and the corresponding letters for the "active" (#1) couples and even ones for the "inactives", so that the starting position of a duple minor contra would look like this: 1 B 3 D 5 F ... A 2 C 4 E 6 .. (If you're not seeing corresponding letters and numbers aligned directly above and below each other, It's probably because you're viewing in a variable-pitch font.) For a Becket dance, I might not be certain of the direction of progression when I start diagramming, but in any case I put the odd-numbered couples 1A, 3C, etc. on one side of the set and the even-numbered ones other. For a single-progression dance with no out-of-minor set action, it suffices to follow couples 1A and 2B. For dances with out-of-minor set action, I might start by tracking a foursome partway down the set--for example, 3CD4 or 5E6F--and then bring in more dancers an needed (more on "bringing in dancers as needed" below). If I need to show dancer I (partner to 9), I write the capital letter "I" in a style easily distinguished from the numeral 1 (one). In the unusual case of needing numerals as hight as 10 or higher, I'd put the digits close together so they couldn't be misread as denoting separate dancers. I don't think I've ever needed the letter O (partner to 15), much less needed to show more than 26 couples. When I want to show the direction a dancer is facing, as I usually do, I put a little dot next to the digit or letter, in front of where the dancer's nose would be. Regardless of dancers' facing directions, I always write the digits and letters in their normal right-sude-up orientation. To show a hand or arm connection, I draw a short line segment between the characters for the dancers involved. I sometimes draw a little straight or (more commonly) curved arrow to indicate the path a dance is about to take or has just taken. For common and familiar figures, such as "right and left through" or "circle left 3/4", I rarely need such arrows, but they can be useful for showing unusual figures (e.g., the distinctive figure in "The Devil's Backbone") or for analyzing the flow of certain transitions (e.g., poussette to hey in "Joyride"). In the middle of a duple-minor set, away from the area of end effects, dancers in adjacent foursomes should be in identical configurations with corresponding dancers having letters or numbers that are "off by 2". For example, if dancer 6 is in some position in one foursome, dancer 8 should be in the corresponding position in the next foursome don the set and dancer 4 should be in the corresponding position in the next foursome up the set. Similarly the actions of, say, dancer E should be paralleled by dancer G in the next foursome down and dancer C in the next foursome up. I use this fact in two ways. First, if I see that I have drawn two adjacent foursomes where corresponding dancers aren't in the "off-by-2" relation (except as expected on account of dancers reaching an end of the set and turning around), then I know I should go back and look for where I made a mistake. Second, when a progression or an out-of-minor set action makes me want to want to bring in new dancers--that is, to start showing dancers that I haven't been tracking from the start of the sequence--the off-by-2 rule tells what dancer will show up in a given spot. For example, a dancer encountered in a corresponding position to, say, dancer D (who I have been tracking) but one foursome down must be dancer F. In the preceding paragraph, I referred to departures from the off-by-2 pattern "as expected on account of dancers reaching an end of the set and turning around," but I didn't say exactly what pattern *is* expected in that case. It's pretty easy to work it out, and any readers who don't know it already will learn it best if they work it out for themselves. --Jim

5 years, 4 months

Re: Is there an on-line simulator to visualize/observe contra dance moves/interactions?

by Gregory Frock

Hi Becky, Lots of good references and advice here. Three things I would add are: 1. If you are diagramming, you will have better results using items with "faces". For a lot of dances, which direction each dancer is facing can also be important (think of box circulates and the like). 2. Like many things, diagramming is a skill that gets better with practice. Even if you find a good app online, keep diagramming at least a few dances on your own. You will find it easier over time. 3. If a dance is really difficult to diagram, it's most likely not worth it, except as diagramming practice. Consider that all the trouble you have diagramming is likely to extend as you figure out how to teach a particular dance. Best of luck in your search, Greg On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 2:02 PM Becky Liddle via Contra Callers < contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > I doubt this exists, but thought I’d ask: > I have seen on-line apps that demonstrate just one particular move (a > ravens chain or whatever) showing how each dancer moves in that single > call/move. > But has anyone yet programmed something that allows you to put in all the > moves of a full contra dance, so you can see how all the dancers in a > contra line interact? > I’m trying to figure out movements and end effects using a magnetic > whiteboard, moving magnets around, but it is both painstakingly slow and I > keep screwing it up. > > I know the ideal way to figure out end effects and make sure a dance works > before calling it is to get a few friends together to walk it thru, but > short of getting that many contra dancers in a room (I have one friend who > offers them pie as incentive, but I’m no pastry chef!), has anyone figured > out a better system for visualizing dancer interactions and end effects > other than magnets on a whiteboard? > > Assuming an on-line simulator doesn’t exist, I’m about to go that > magnet/whiteboard route, so if anyone cares to suggest the least > mind-boggling way to set that up (Lark 1A, Raven 1A, Lark 2A, Raven 2A, > etc?) do chime in! I need some way to label each dancer so that when they > leave their minor set, and then, say, do a left diagonal ravens chain back > to their partner I can tell if it really IS their own partner or if I’ve > screwed up again. :-( > > I find online videos can sometimes help me visualize the interactions in > the middle of the line (if the videographer will hold still long enough for > me to see a whole run-thru of the dance with one minor set), but I can > almost never see end effects in those. > > Thanks for any suggestions! > Becky Liddle, Toronto > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >

5 years, 4 months

Re: Is there an on-line simulator to visualize/observe contra dance moves/interactions?

by Colin Hume

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5 years, 4 months

Re: Is there an on-line simulator to visualize/observe

by Claire Takemori

Hi Becky, I also use square glass magnets. I printed blue stickers for half and purple for the others. I typed L1-L8, and R1-R8 for Lark Left, Robin Right. I’ve also put the stickers on so a portion covers one side edge so I know which way a dancer is facing, as that matter in some dances. In case the automations are not helpful and you go back to magnets. Also know that with time and practice, you get faster and better at seeing moves in your head. Good luck! Claire Takemori, California > On Feb 9, 2020, at 9:00 PM, contracallers-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net wrote: > > Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2020 13:57:01 -0500 > From: Becky Liddle <beckyliddle(a)bell.net <mailto:beckyliddle@bell.net>> > Subject: [Callers] Is there an on-line simulator to visualize/observe > contra dance moves/interactions? > To: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> > Message-ID: <E068296E-877C-495D-B4C0-0895A6E565D0(a)bell.net <mailto:E068296E-877C-495D-B4C0-0895A6E565D0@bell.net>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > I doubt this exists, but thought I’d ask: > I have seen on-line apps that demonstrate just one particular move (a ravens chain or whatever) showing how each dancer moves in that single call/move. > But has anyone yet programmed something that allows you to put in all the moves of a full contra dance, so you can see how all the dancers in a contra line interact? > I’m trying to figure out movements and end effects using a magnetic whiteboard, moving magnets around, but it is both painstakingly slow and I keep screwing it up. > > I know the ideal way to figure out end effects and make sure a dance works before calling it is to get a few friends together to walk it thru, but short of getting that many contra dancers in a room (I have one friend who offers them pie as incentive, but I’m no pastry chef!), has anyone figured out a better system for visualizing dancer interactions and end effects other than magnets on a whiteboard? > > Assuming an on-line simulator doesn’t exist, I’m about to go that magnet/whiteboard route, so if anyone cares to suggest the least mind-boggling way to set that up (Lark 1A, Raven 1A, Lark 2A, Raven 2A, etc?) do chime in! I need some way to label each dancer so that when they leave their minor set, and then, say, do a left diagonal ravens chain back to their partner I can tell if it really IS their own partner or if I’ve screwed up again. :-( > > I find online videos can sometimes help me visualize the interactions in the middle of the line (if the videographer will hold still long enough for me to see a whole run-thru of the dance with one minor set), but I can almost never see end effects in those. > > Thanks for any suggestions! > Becky Liddle, Toronto

5 years, 4 months

Re: Is there an on-line simulator to visualize/observe contra dance moves/interactions?

by jim saxe

Jeff Kaufman wrote: > When I was learning to call I read about diagramming dances (I completely forget where). ... The section "Diagramming Dances" in Cary Ravitz's "Notes on Choreography for Duple Minor Improper Contra Dances" https://www.dance.ravitz.us/chor.php describes a system similar to the one in Jeff's message. Note, however, that Cary places the top of the set at the right side of the page, so that when it is helpful to diagram more than one foursome, the contra line extends horizontally rather than vertically. --Jim

5 years, 4 months

Re: Is there an on-line simulator to visualize/observe contra dance moves/interactions?

by Jeff Kaufman

When I was learning to call I read about diagramming dances (I completely forget where). For an equal turn dance you write the dancers as "l" and "r" for the ones and "-" for the twos. The top of the hall is the top of the page. You mark these down at each step through the dance: r l - - A1 (16) Neighbor balance and Swing - - r l A2 (8) Ravens chain - r - l A2 (8) Promenade across l - r - etc. I usually find I can keep things clear enough that I can track what a given call will do to the dancers, and having all the stages written down is helpful for looking back. Jeff On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 3:21 PM Alan J Rosenthal via Contra Callers < contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > I use chess pieces. It's not all that different to what you are doing with > magnets except that I think it meets the objectives you state in your > message. > > Partners are same pieces of a different colour (e.g. a pawn's partner is > a pawn, etc, and you only use one pair of pawns). You can use black to > represent Larks etc (or the other way around obviously). Couples are > arranged in some meaningful order to you, such as by the value of the > chess piece or by height. > > Then after you move them all around for a while, you can still tell who's > who. > > Actually I bought four different colours of chess pieces from > https://www.chesshouse.com (five years ago, so things there might have > changed). I've never used them to play chess. (I had in mind to make a > youtube video about how some dance progressions work, which I may or may > not manage to do some day. But I've used them to work out dances a lot.) > > regards, > ajr, dancing in and near Toronto, Canada > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >

5 years, 4 months

Re: Is there an on-line simulator to visualize/observe contra dance moves/interactions?

by Alan J Rosenthal

I use chess pieces. It's not all that different to what you are doing with magnets except that I think it meets the objectives you state in your message. Partners are same pieces of a different colour (e.g. a pawn's partner is a pawn, etc, and you only use one pair of pawns). You can use black to represent Larks etc (or the other way around obviously). Couples are arranged in some meaningful order to you, such as by the value of the chess piece or by height. Then after you move them all around for a while, you can still tell who's who. Actually I bought four different colours of chess pieces from https://www.chesshouse.com (five years ago, so things there might have changed). I've never used them to play chess. (I had in mind to make a youtube video about how some dance progressions work, which I may or may not manage to do some day. But I've used them to work out dances a lot.) regards, ajr, dancing in and near Toronto, Canada

5 years, 4 months

Digest

by Andrea Nettleton

I know there was a post about it, but I missed it/deleted it. I very much need to be in digest format for all my shared weight accounts. How do I do that?? Andrea Sent from my iPhone

5 years, 4 months

Re: Is there an on-line simulator to visualize/observe contra dance moves/interactions?

by Maia McCormick

Haven't actually played with it much, but you could check out Cary Ravitz's Micro Robot Dance: https://www.dance.ravitz.us/mrd.php On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 2:02 PM Becky Liddle via Contra Callers < contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > I doubt this exists, but thought I’d ask: > I have seen on-line apps that demonstrate just one particular move (a > ravens chain or whatever) showing how each dancer moves in that single > call/move. > But has anyone yet programmed something that allows you to put in all the > moves of a full contra dance, so you can see how all the dancers in a > contra line interact? > I’m trying to figure out movements and end effects using a magnetic > whiteboard, moving magnets around, but it is both painstakingly slow and I > keep screwing it up. > > I know the ideal way to figure out end effects and make sure a dance works > before calling it is to get a few friends together to walk it thru, but > short of getting that many contra dancers in a room (I have one friend who > offers them pie as incentive, but I’m no pastry chef!), has anyone figured > out a better system for visualizing dancer interactions and end effects > other than magnets on a whiteboard? > > Assuming an on-line simulator doesn’t exist, I’m about to go that > magnet/whiteboard route, so if anyone cares to suggest the least > mind-boggling way to set that up (Lark 1A, Raven 1A, Lark 2A, Raven 2A, > etc?) do chime in! I need some way to label each dancer so that when they > leave their minor set, and then, say, do a left diagonal ravens chain back > to their partner I can tell if it really IS their own partner or if I’ve > screwed up again. :-( > > I find online videos can sometimes help me visualize the interactions in > the middle of the line (if the videographer will hold still long enough for > me to see a whole run-thru of the dance with one minor set), but I can > almost never see end effects in those. > > Thanks for any suggestions! > Becky Liddle, Toronto > _______________________________________________ > Contra Callers mailing list -- contracallers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > To unsubscribe send an email to contracallers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net >

5 years, 4 months

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